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Monday, March 26, 2007

Three Outta Seven Better Than Seven Outta Seven!

Came across this in my files, an interesting read:

Vegan Diets Deficient in Three Nutrients?
Well, Meateaters are Deficient in Seven!

(Published September 2003)
By Michael Greger, M.D.

The latest data on the dietary intakes of vegans was just published last month.[1] The diets of about 100 vegans were recorded for a week and were found deficient in calcium, iodine and vitamin B12. Using the same standards, though, the standard American diet are deficient in 7 nutrients! The diet of your average American is not only also deficient in calcium and iodine, it's deficient in vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium as well.[2]

Not only does the American public have over twice as many nutritional deficiencies in their diets, vegans were shown to have higher intakes of 16 out of the 19 nutrients studied, includeing calcium. The vegans were getting more than enough protein on average and three times more vitamin C, three times more vitamin E, three times more fiber. Vegans got twice the folate, twice the magnesium, twice the copper, twice the manganese.

And of course the vegans had twice the fruit and vegetable intake and half the saturated fat intake, meeting the new 2003 World Health Organization guidelines for fat intake and weight control.[3] Almost 2/3 of Americans are overweight.[4] In contrast, only 11% of the vegans were overweight. Almost one in three Americans are obese.[4] Zero of the 98 vegans in this study were obese.

So when a meateater asks you "Where you get your B12?" You can counter with "Where do you get your vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium? And while you're at it, you can ask them how they keep their sodium, saturated fat, total fat and cholesterol intake under control (not to mention their weight).

[1] Results from the German Vegan Study. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 57(August 2003):947.
[2] USDA. Food and Nutrient Intakes by Individuals in the United States, by Region, 1994-96.
[3] World Health Organization Technical Report Series 916. Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic Diseases. 2003.
[4] Centers for Disease Control.

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At Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:49:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

see, the problem with that test is that it sampled a variable (vegans) that have to be more conscious about their diet because they can't eat anything available, and put it against another variable (meat eaters) that covers a wider statistical population that may have a diet that includes eating fruit loops for breakfast, instant frozen high sodium meals for lunch, pizza for dinner, and cake for desert. My point being, that test is biased and statistically would be torn apart. If they want to produce an accurate test they would have to look at two similar variables, both with a similar diet, however one that has a slightly higher intake of fruits and vegetables and one that likes to eat meat. That being said, i'm a meat-eater, I eat a very well balanced diet, and take all my supplements every day and i'm sure my test results would be better than 9 out of 10 vegans.

At Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:42:00 AM, Blogger gewilli said...

if you are taking supplements your diet ain't balanced...

that goes for vegans and moronic meat-eaters (i'm in the latter group, but, well... related to a wicked strict vegan or two)

If you need supplements ya ain't eating right...

plain and simple...

no debate - book closed...

The foods are out there find em and eat em...

Oh and doesn't nutritional yeast have B12? a few vegans i know down that stuff like the fat american's loading sugar on their fruit loops...

At Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:59:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if you are taking supplements your diet ain't balanced..."

...actually, that isn't true. Have you ever heard of soil remineralization? maybe you should look it up. It is essential to take supplements because the soils are being depleted of important bulk and trace minerals. Gewilli, you can eat your greens 'till the cows come home but you ain't getting all of your essential vitamins and minerals that way. Anyone who wants to argue that point is arguing for the sake of arguing because it is a fact and you would have to be pretty brain dead to argue against it.

At Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:13:00 PM, Blogger Dave Shishkoff said...

Hey now - play nice! =)

1st Anony - actually, there are vegan versions of all those items..one can easily eat only vegan junk food, and many fail to pay a lot of attention to their food - becoming vegan doesn't mean they're suddenly 'eating better', on the contrary i know of people who actually become a bit self-righteous and eat *worse* as vegans.

That said, i agree this isn't a '100% solid' review, however i think it also has something to offer.

Eating supplements doesn't guarantee positive health either, btw, if you want to get picky. ;)

I think for the average vegan, if they're eating mainly whole foods, with a strong focus on fruits and veggies and preferably organic, and fulfilling their caloric requirements, they won't need supplements, with the exception of B12 (every vegan should be eating something supplemented with B12. We cannot rely on 'natural' sources.)

Second anony has a good point on depletion issues, do organic processes alleviate this issue at all?

At Wednesday, March 28, 2007 6:45:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Eating supplements doesn't guarantee positive health either, btw, if you want to get picky."

Dave, you're right on this too. If someone is eating junk food they can't entirely turn their health around by taking supplements, however, if you look at the geographic trends in mortality rates you will see a very strong correlation between mineral deficiency and geographic distribution of disease. This is attributed to soil depletion of trace and bulk minerals that is usually revived by glaciation but more commonly now-a-days is done through soil remineralization. Unfortunately, organic processes cannot help this issue because it is looking to get something out of the soil that isn't already there. The only other method is to go to supplementation. Now, i'm not saying this is the only key to healthy living however I can promise you that if you were to test someone who has taking their supplements on a daily basis they shouldn't show signs of any deficiencies. If you would like further proof I can send you my thesis results to confirm.

see you at the track

At Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:31:00 PM, Blogger gewilli said...

different plants pull minerals more effectively than others - and as they are a sink they can generally take trace amounts out of the soil and get ya enough...

true - factory farming techniques tend to demineralize(sic) the soil...

organic doesn't actually mean the plants have more minerals than non-organic...

Supplements applied to the soil generally are in forms we (humans) can't use so much... but plants can.

Most plants have specific mineral needs and will not grow profitably without said minerals...

the de-mineralization of the soil is less of an issue due to the cycle of organic/inorganic material due to percolation from precipitation and tilling, crop rotation also helps quite a bit...

if you think just eating the greens will get ya what ya need that's wrong.


if you think calcium levels in lettuce are low well check into some plant physiology...

Plants need the same cellular minerals that we need... and some that we don't... they are even more sensitive than people... they just won't grow without them...

no grow = no product to sell = now what?

How is it that a cow or horse or sheep (big muscle animals) can survive eating only grass?


well they have all those stomachs and everything... (and they eat a hell uv a lot - volume and sink/source thing)

anyway - sorry - i don't mean to hijack ya blog Dave...

and for the record i think anonymous posters are chicken and i don't like chicken... probably no more than Dave does ;)

At Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:45:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, cool topic Dave,I like to play with all kinds of animals and eat plants with them.
Way to educate others even though some others have their own opinons
For, Myself turning vegan was the best thing I've done. As an athlete.
I gained stamia, energy, edurance.
I still don't take any supplements. I live on plants for my source of supplements. We are also, free from a lot of diesease, such as cancer, heart attacts, clogged atteries.
This happends to people who eat animals :( Therefore animal products are high in cholesterol and saturated fats. BAD FATS YUCK!
Annoy, you should try a power cleanse to get rid of all the toxins in your body :)
Just a suggestion.
See you at the track Dave! :)

At Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:14:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We are also, free from a lot of diesease, such as cancer, heart attacts, clogged atteries."

You certainly have a lower chance of heart attacks and clogged arteries however I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are far from free from obtaining many forms of cancer. There are too many geochemical factors that play into the etiology of different forms of cancers which is where supplementation helps to lower those risks. For example, recent studies show that 1/3 of the earth is iodine deficient which is a major contributer to cancer of the breast, ovaries, uterus, prostate and thyroid gland. Unless you have a balanced diet of sea vegetables you are probably deficient. This is why Japan has the lowest cases of breast cancer in the world. Another example is the hardness of water. Hard water is full of Calcium and Magnesium which has proven to lower digestive cancers. If you look at recent trends of this cancer and the hardness of water in the United States you will see a very strong and positive correlation linking these two together. FYI - Victoria has very soft water. One more example is the presence/absence of selenium in the soils. Senegal has the lowest cancer mortality rate world wide because they have high levels of selenium in their soils. Unless you are eating a lot of Brazil nuts you are probably deficient in that as well. Unfortunately the list goes on and on too. Even if you decide to eat healthy organic vegetables and foods, unless you are covering your basis and ensuring you have a strong glutathiome peroxidase level you may want to consider supplementation as well. For more information I would advise you check out orthomolecular.org


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Dave Shishkoff
aka Dave Noisy
Victoria, BC

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